BY MR. POTTER: Q. I'm going to hand you what's been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 11, and ask you what that is and to identify it. A. Oh, yes, I definitely recognize number 11. Q. What is it? A. It is basically a letter saying, from Child Welfare for child neglect. Q. What is the basis of their charges? A. The basis of their charges? Q. Actually, read the first two sentences. A. "This is to inform you that you are the subject of a report of suspected child abuse or maltreatment received by the State Child Abuse and Maltreatment Register on 12/11/2000. This means that you have been identified as the person who is responsible for causing or allowing to inflict an injury abuse or maltreatment to the children." Q. All right, now, when did you receive that letter? A. On December 11th. Q. Is it your understanding that the basis of that letter is your failure to vaccinate your daughter? A. Yes. Q. Have you been in contact with somebody from child protective services? A. Yes, I have. Q. And what have they told you? A. They said that they had inquired about my daughter being out of school for a long period of time. Actually, at that time my daughter had the chicken pox, and the social worker met me, and she wanted to see my daughter as well. So I was at a restaurant, we had met, she saw my daughter had the chicken pox. I explained my daughter had the chicken pox and also there is a problem aside from that dealing with vaccination, and basically, I am dealing with that, and with lawyers and that I would update her as to the status of my situation. Q. All right. Your daughter has not been in school since November 30th. How is she being educated? A. My mother is a teacher, she has the curriculum for the second grade. She had taught the second grade in the past and my daughter comes over to her house on weekends and one day a week I do bring her over. Q. Is this the same education that she would be receiving if she were in school? A. Yes, exactly. Same education. Q. Why do you say that? A. Because my mother is a teacher and she has the same curriculum that is given out and she teaches District 73 as well, that would be given out to second graders. Q. Do you think your daughter's education is suffering by not being in school? A. Yes, I think that it's suffering in the sense that her education is being denied. She needs a full time education every day, and I think yes, in that sense it is suffering. Q. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're telling us is you're lucky to be in a situation where your mother is actually in the School District and is able to give her-- MR. COLE: Objection, your Honor. Leading the witness. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. POTTER: I shouldn't ask the question. Actually, I'm just restating what she already said. That's good enough. THE WITNESS: I am fortunate. MR. POTTER: I move Exhibits 11 and 8. THE COURT: Any objection? MR. COLE: No objection. THE COURT: All right, Plaintiff's Exhibits 8 and 11 are moved into evidence. How much more do you have for this witness? MR. POTTER: Not much, I do not believe. THE COURT: Not much is a minute? Five minutes? Ten minutes? MR. POTTER: My "not much" would be five minutes. THE COURT: Okay, then, take the five minutes. BY MR. POTTER: Q. Have you made any attempt to receive home schooling information? A. Yes, my brother had made the attempt for me. Q. How did he make that attempt? A. He had gone to the school and asked exactly how to proceed with doing home schooling legally, and also the curriculum. Q. Did your brother relay the information he received from the school to you? A. Yes. Q. After you had that conversation with your brother, what was your understanding as to whether or not your daughter would be held back from school? A. My understanding is, is that there is a very high chance that she will be held back from school. Q. Why is that? A. Because she had missed so many days of school. Q. Who did that come from? A. That came from the principal. Well, it came from my brother to me, but according to my brother it came from the principal and the guidance counselor he had spoken to as well. Q. Do you believe that vaccinating yourself or your daughter is a sin? A. Yes, I certainly do. Q. What are the consequences of sin, under your understanding of scripture? A. My understanding, the consequences is that you will go to hell if you sin against God. Q. So what are you going to do if this Court rules that you have to vaccinate your daughter? Or, I'm sorry, what if this Court rules that your religious exemption is denied? A. I will do home schooling and basically if they're still speaking about vaccinating my daughter, I will have her in Vermont for a while, where it is less stress and there's not as much stress regarding upon religious exemptions, because my sister lives in Vermont. THE COURT: Let me make it clear to the witness, the issue before this Court is not whether you will be directed to vaccinate your daughter. The issue is whether you're entitled to an exemption under State law which would permit you to send your child to school without vaccinating your daughter. THE WITNESS: Okay. THE COURT: So there's no issue here and the Court is not involved in determining whether you should be directed to vaccinate your child. THE WITNESS: Okay. THE COURT: There's a limited issue before the Court. THE WITNESS: I understand. MR. POTTER: Well, your Honor, I do think the issues are related, because if the Court ruling says she does not have the religious exemption, if you read the statute, it would then require them to be vaccinated and the child protective services will then come after them for maltreatment. In fact, that's the basis of the letter. it's not educational neglect, it's maltreatment. MR. COLE: Well, the Court stated the issue succinctly, really, depending upon what the Court rules, the choice would be up to Ms. Hillman as to how she wanted to deal with the consequences if the Court were to decline to grant her application. Then you would have to decide whether to remain here or go to Vermont or whatever. THE COURT: Yes, that's a separate case, and that would involve a different agency of the government. That issue is not really before this Court. There's a more limited issue before the Court, as far as I can tell. You can brief it, if you want, at the end. MR. POTTER: Well, no-- THE COURT: I just don't want the witness, the plaintiff, to misunderstand what the focus of the Court is in conducting this hearing. This hearing has to do with whether you are entitled to preliminary relief that would compel the Board of Education to accept your daughter as a student, based upon constitutional and statutory provisions. MR. POTTER: Right. In any event, the question has been asked and answered, so I guess that's all we need from that. THE COURT: Go ahead, proceed. Do you have anything else? MR. POTTER: Actually, no, I have nothing further. THE COURT: Okay. We're going to break, because I need to do something else, and it is lunchtime. We're going to resume at 2:30, and you can conduct your cross-examination then. Do you have anything else right now, any housekeeping issues? MR. COLE: Nothing further, although I did want to mention, the Court had asked me to inquire with child protective services on that issue, and I did make inquiry, and apparently, the investigation that is pending concerning the Hillman family is solely with regard to the issue regarding the absence from school and they've assured me that pending a decision from the Court, they are not going to take any further steps to remove the child. They're going to wait for the Court to make a decision before taking any further action in regard to the administration. THE COURT: All right. Thank you for making an inquiry. We'll take it up one step at a time.